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Public Discussion / Re: html [ and ] vs < and >
« Last post by The Gorn on February 10, 2019, 07:28:24 pm »
You're welcome and thanks.

I've always seen BBCode as partially a security measure (avoids backdoors by being a very small subset of functions) and partially to create a slightly simplified markup syntax for end users.

For instance, <script> introduces a Javascript. You don't want some forum user schmuck writing this in a post.

BBCode is a subset of HTML. It would be very easy to write a simple sed or awk script that translates BBcode into HTML. HTML to BBCode translation would amount to skipping anything in HTML that you can't do in BBCode. But otherwise trivial and easy also. You could probably google a canned  solution (prewritten script) for either problem, and sed exists for everything, Windows included.
Public Discussion / Re: html [ and ] vs < and >
« Last post by benali72 on February 10, 2019, 07:02:04 pm »
Thank you, Gorn.  Yes, web site forum entry is exactly where I've seen the [  ]  business.

Unfortunately it means you can't paste your html into a forum post. Nor can you easily translate from one form to another (more than just the brackets are different, for example, the link format is also quite a bit different).

Thanks again! I knew the Gorn would nail this!
Please explain it here, now. I'm open to the notion that I got it wrong, or that there is another competing theory that explains things as well.

But I believe I totally nailed it to the exclusion of lesser causes that ARE significant but my theory identifies 75%+ of the reason why young people "hoard" IT.

Please make certain that your idea:

Is evergreen. Is not a short term trend like "H1B durr hrurr hurr."
Is tied to human nature.
Is apart from nationalistic or political or ideological motives that you ascribe for your personal reasons.

Public Discussion / The Single Reason Why IT & Programming are Ageist/Youth Oriented
« Last post by The Gorn on February 10, 2019, 09:14:22 am »

The dam scrip kiddies keep reinventing the wheel and coming out with new stuff all the time for literally no reason.

I will explain why this is, right now. It's REALLY obvious.

I'm about to give the community here the reason for something important, that should form a framework for later discussions.

We rattle around a lot on this board bitterly complaining about the industry. How it demeans and denigrates experience, accomplishments, and character.  How developers invent and push new crap continually for absolutely no good reason at all -  even when it's repetitive, broken, isn't really any good, is unwieldy, and/or is unreliable.

Here's the unified field theory on this subject. Please everyone, drop the aspie naivete about human nature... People are ALL motivated by vanity and the need to feel better than the next guy/person....

You know how weight lifters lift weights, and how useless that activity by itself is except to increase muscle mass, but has ABSOLUTELY no benefit other than that as well as bragging rights, reputation, winning awards and respect?

IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME THING WITH PROGRAMMING. EXACTLY. So stop complaining cause you will NOT change human nature.

Programmers are the athletes, the weight lifters of the brain.

This means: USELESS HARD WORK - pushing against almost immovable resistance for no good reason except to show your strength - IS NORMALIZED. REINVENTING THE WHEEL IS NORMALIZED. BEING SCORNFUL OF EASIER WAYS IS NORMALIZED.

It's totally, quite obviously built into the culture of CS and IT. I used to do it. VB developers or FoxPro developers were supposed to be retards who would not learn the obviously superior compiled languages like Visual C++ (a monstrosity.) That's the vain dumbass young programmer speak thinking.

Please, aspies, note this before you go off in the dark going "durr hurr hurr it unfair durr slobber".

Everything programmers do to churn up the occupation and create false progress - extensions to proven languages that have no net benefit, heavy APIs, verbose documentation,  ever increasing syntax complexity of long established tools like C++ -

All have ONE AGENDA:

Make things in computer science VERY VERY HARD to approach for the first time.

So developers now in the game will feel empowered, powerful, better than outsiders, and part of a kindred race of "brain brawn".

Actual real world weight lifting doesn't cater to experience, age, good intentions, or accomplishments. Only pure muscle is respected.

CS is the process of making things really hard for the next guy to take over your code.

How could all of you people be so obtuse?  ;D


I mean, really. This is observation 101 IF. YOU. JUST. STEP. BACK.

I DEFY ANYONE ON THIS BOARD TO identify ONE, JUST ONE!!!! way that computer science permanently embraced some important simplification that makes things easier.

Also to counter the reaction that "proper businesses just wouldn't accept programmers diddling around wasting time inventing hard stuff to test themselves"... BZZZT BZZZT NAIVE.

Don't be naive. Executives and owners have NO idea that their techies are lying to them, or not. Every techie follows other techies to make their job harder, like a herd.

So executives and owners never see this constant erosion of value in the service of programmer ego and dick-waving. They talk with other owners or executives that are in exactly the same environment.

Young programmers in the game have a de facto monopoly on defining the rules of the playing field. You need them to keep your IT running. And when you have them, they will unwittingly participate in this overall competitive wastefulness.

Last point: Programmers doing this stuff probably have no idea they're doing it. First of all they have no experience to show them that the "improvements" are bullshit. Their experience in industry goes back 3-5 years, not 15-25 years to really see how things get harder for no real reason.

Secondly they  are personally invested in the mindset because they need to keep their job or find a job and lead techies will be as invested as anyone in the waste/mental weight lifting mentality. Programming is a social environment. You have to subscribe to the memes that everyone else does if you want a job.

You WILL see programmers adopt mantras/memes such as DRY (don't repeat yourself) and conserving activities such as reducing verbosity of code.

However, in almost EVERY instance, programmers economize on the surface level complexity of their creations while burying mountains of complex assumptions and defaults under the surface.  Developers tend over time to make things APPEAR simpler, on the surface. But the knowledge required to approach the subject matter always increases.
Public Discussion / Re: Number of CS Majors Doubles
« Last post by SoftwareDev on February 10, 2019, 06:28:08 am »
The dam scrip kiddies keep reinventing the wheel and coming out with new stuff all the time for literally no reason.

Hammer on the nail
Public Discussion / Re: Windows 10 Microsoft account / login
« Last post by ilconsiglliere on February 09, 2019, 08:54:18 pm »
Microsoft with Win10 wants you to store all your documents on their Skydrive/One Drive formerly known as My Documents.

Thanks but no thanks. We have it work and its forced on us. You can keep it.
Public Discussion / Re: Number of CS Majors Doubles
« Last post by ilconsiglliere on February 09, 2019, 08:52:27 pm »
Jo, it's a cultural thing. Plus ageism.

C++ is still valid, so why doesn't it give you an edge?

Didn't I make it clear? Nobody uses it. At least nobody outside places in coastal or tech belt areas.

In the case of C++, in order:

- Nobody at the interviewing end is smart enough to appreciate C++ skills. They may genuinely believe that HTML is "harder".
- They may be threatened by the knowledge of something they don't know.
- They may believe that C++ is "too old" to be relevant.
- They often think I'm bullshitting about my skills.

As for the rest of it, you nailed it, so use Occam's Razor to figure out the why! This is NOT a profession. It's an occupation of elitist kids who call most of the shots.

Also, in the specific case of C++ - the language has mutated well beyond what I used in the mid 20-oughts. Today C++ is a problematic language that is very hard to use for implementation. Complex and easily broken new language constructs are REQUIRED to be known by most shops that use C++. I stopped learning them because there was no need.

"Plain" C++ without recent new keywords, templates, smart pointers, etc is still quite useful, but nobody will hire anyone who doesn't have the little-needed current layer of garbage.

In short, my C++ skills are dated and unmarketable, even though I have the abstractions (the hardest part) down cold.

And this is why I went hands off with tech.

I focused on PM and BA work - today its nothing but PM work and finance (PM's now spend an enormous amount of time playing with budgets). The skill set you have to maintain as a PM is much easier than that of a developer. I could see it already years ago which is why I stopped coding.

Its a real grind to maintain that kind of skill set. The dam scrip kiddies keep reinventing the wheel and coming out with new stuff all the time for literally no reason.

I have a friend who is a high end Java architect - he regularly talks about reading at a minimum of a dozen development related books a year. Jenkins, Spring, blah, blah, blah
Public Discussion / Re: html [ and ] vs < and >
« Last post by The Gorn on February 08, 2019, 10:21:45 pm »
< and > are for real HTML (web site code.) You'd never see [ and ] as tag delimiters in website code.

[ and ] are used in scripting languages such as "BBCode" (google it) which is a very simplified markup for forum users to accent their posts.

The idea is by disallowing angle bracket delimiters on tags (no "real" HTML) there is less of a risk of a forum user injecting harmful HTML such as Javascript into their post. BBCode has no equivalents for Javascript, CSS or other raw browser capabilities.
Public Discussion / html [ and ] vs < and >
« Last post by benali72 on February 08, 2019, 09:28:50 pm »
I always thought HTML used < and > for delimiters, as in < b > and < /b > for boldface.

But trying to post something the other day, a website insisted I use [ b ] and [ /b ] instead.  (And it had a different format for creating a Link using those delimiters).

I notice posting on this forum allows using either standard.

So why are there 2 standards for HTML delimiters? Is one newer than the other? More universal? I always thought is was just < and >.  I must have missed a memo somewhere.


Public Discussion / Re: Need Advice - quit 6-figure job to do coding school?
« Last post by Richardk on February 04, 2019, 08:03:11 pm »
Yeah, the guy is nuts or something if he thinks that starting out in software engineering will be on par with his current situation.

Also he's assuming that the "top software firms" will even want him.
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