NOTE TO computerconsultantsforum.com and forums.techcareerfubar.com USERS: This is the same site. Your login will work here. Use the "forgot password" function if you need help recovering your password.

Get rid of this big black message box by joining here: http://mature-it.pro/register/

Obvious fact: You're not logged in.

Therefore, you're only seeing the tip of the iceberg of great discussion threads on this site. The frankest, most raw and truthful observations about employment and work life in the IT and engineering fields are in "members only" sections that are ONLY visible when you are registered and you log in.

If you're 35 or over, and work in IT, or are retired from IT, and you dislike the herd mentality and clueless, adolescent snobbery of forums such as "Hacker News", then you really should join this board. Why? Because you're too smart for Facebook. And everyone needs someone to gossip, commisserate, and chat with at their level.

Who we are:

A collection of IT, engineering and sciences professionals, in a variety of current circumstances with a variety of career backgrounds. Including:

  • System admins
  • Developers and programmers
  • Freelancers and "gig" entrepreneurs
  • Contract, job shopping and FTE-employed contract house IT workers
  • Web developers
  • Inventors
  • Artists and writers with tech backgrounds

This forum has its roots in the 1990s buildup of the IT field into what we know today and has been around since 2002. 10s of thousands of messages and threads about a variety of career, FTE, contract, and side gig issues and opportunities.

If you're as smart as the typical experienced IT professional, you have a critical mind that has a hard time staying engaged with pop culture and generic issues of the day. And you're WELL beyond the fanboy mentality of the young developer communities. Get some relief here.

Register on the board - your email is NEVER sold or provided to third parties. Then LOGIN FREQUENTLY to see new stuff daily. Note to long lost members: all politics have been marked as "opt in" only. You won't see anything political unless you ask for it.

Join by Registering here: http://mature-it.pro/register/

Author Topic: Problem with YouTube  (Read 1229 times)

David Randolph

  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 4337
Problem with YouTube
« on: April 24, 2016, 09:33:39 am »
YouTube has a big problem. I have not seen anyone discuss it yet.

Right now, people can rate the videos that are posted and obviously, those videos with more likes are displayed more for people to watch.

But there is no way to judge the correctness of any video. People are making all sorts of claims, posting Jidhadism propaganda, or "proofs" that man and dinosaurs co-existed. Thus, ISIS videos and other wild claims can be passed on with no challenge.

There is no way for people to protest against the content of the videos - to declare that it contains false information. The comments section is too limited and does not affect the rating of a video or its presentation to new "victims".

YouTube needs editors. Not necessarily people to remove videos, but people who can put a truthfulness rating on any video.
Or it needs a way to post contrary videos that are connected to the original.

(I ran into this while looking for learned discussions on southwest archeology.)

The Gorn

  • I absolutely DESPISE improvised sulfur-charcoal-salt peter cannons made out of hollow tree branches filled with diamonds as projectiles.
  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 22524
  • Gorn Classic, user of Gornix
Re: Problem with YouTube
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2016, 09:59:06 am »
I don't see it as a problem at all. Youtube is free speech. Right there is your own libertarian inclination made tangible.

ANYONE who treats Youtube as a reference source is an idiot. I think you would agree.

Youtube is a Google property... the unified login of Google also logs you into Youtube. And Youtube tracks your viewing and preferences and viewing history, just like Google. So Youtube functions a lot like a search engine that "conditions" the videos that appear on your own page. It finds things that it think will be of interest to you personally.

So a video about man and dinosaurs living side by side will trigger the display of viewing suggestions such as critiques of fundamentalist creation theology.

So, I think Youtube works rather well as an alternative viewpoint presenter.
Gornix is protected by the GPL. *

* Gorn Public License. Duplication by inferior sentient species prohibited.

Code Refugee

  • Wise Sage
  • *****
  • Posts: 1480
  • To Serve Man
Re: Problem with YouTube
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2016, 09:59:25 am »
I see your point but I think YouTube is what it is - a self publishing platform.

You can comment and people can ignore it or not allow the comments. You used to be able to post video responses, maybe you can't now. You could start a blog and link to the problematic videos and present your scholarly criticism of the videos. Lots of options.

I'm personally curious though, what sort of things interest you about southwest archaeology, and what sort of bad information were you finding? I tend to follow westerndigs.org since I like to hike and camp in the general region, both the southwest and north into the great basin, lots of good parks and epic trails in the area.

The Gorn

  • I absolutely DESPISE improvised sulfur-charcoal-salt peter cannons made out of hollow tree branches filled with diamonds as projectiles.
  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 22524
  • Gorn Classic, user of Gornix
Re: Problem with YouTube
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2016, 10:13:42 am »
^ That's another good way to explain what I said.

What it comes down to is that Youtube is free speech. Any attempt to moderate it meaningfully - even at the provider, not at the governmental level - would destroy it. Part of the fun of Youtube is that it is a free-for-all. And because popularity is determined by votes and likes and favoriting of videos and channels, Youtube is indeed rule by mob.
Gornix is protected by the GPL. *

* Gorn Public License. Duplication by inferior sentient species prohibited.

JoFrance

  • CCF Winner's Circle - Supporter
  • Wise Sage
  • *
  • Posts: 2452
Re: Problem with YouTube
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2016, 10:37:02 am »
If you find something of interest on YouTube but you're not sure of its authenticity, just search other sites for the same info and see if you can verify it that way.  YouTube is what it is.

David Randolph

  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 4337
Re: Problem with YouTube
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2016, 05:34:14 am »
ANYONE who treats Youtube as a reference source is an idiot. I think you would agree.

Well, I found the MIT OpenCourseWare to be interesting. The lecture set on Quantum Mechanics is good. Yale has a set of lectures up there. SLAC, Stanford, and U of CA. have sets up there. Other universities have sets up there.
I'm not treating YouTube as a reference source, but as a transport mechanism.

But, my point isn't about my ability to cut through the garbage, but that garbage is given equal rank to stuff of value. Someone who does not know much can be taken in by the garbage - and we have sufficient proof that such is happening with the ISIS recruitment through such videos.

When we look back at history, the equivalent is the invention of the printing press. Prior to that, books were so hard to make that it took significant effort to pull one together. Afterwards, not only books were far more common, so were broadsides and pamphlets. The result was an explosion of printed material. However, the common person had been trained to think of printed material as being authoritative simply because of how previously difficult it was to produce. Thus, the printed material was taken too seriously.
The result was a lot of war.

It took a while for the culture to gain the perspective of questioning printed material. Right now, our culture does not have the perspective of questioning all video and photographic "evidence". YouTube is perpetuating that problem by not allowing people to really question and tag videos as untruthful. There is no way to search on "give me all videos with a truth rating of 80% or more".

Wikipedia has volunteer editors checking the claims and there is a back and forth about what to show.

I'm personally curious though, what sort of things interest you about southwest archaeology, and what sort of bad information were you finding? I tend to follow westerndigs.org since I like to hike and camp in the general region, both the southwest and north into the great basin, lots of good parks and epic trails in the area.

The Archeology Cafe has a few informal presentations by researchers doing work in the field. The Oriental Institute has presentations from Middle East digs.
Bad stuff includes "Recently RELEASED by Mexican Athorities, Ancient Artifacts (PROOF OF ALIENS)" (sic)

The Gorn

  • I absolutely DESPISE improvised sulfur-charcoal-salt peter cannons made out of hollow tree branches filled with diamonds as projectiles.
  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 22524
  • Gorn Classic, user of Gornix
Re: Problem with YouTube
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2016, 07:26:00 am »
But, my point isn't about my ability to cut through the garbage, but that garbage is given equal rank to stuff of value. Someone who does not know much can be taken in by the garbage - and we have sufficient proof that such is happening with the ISIS recruitment through such videos.

When we look back at history, the equivalent is the invention of the printing press. Prior to that, books were so hard to make that it took significant effort to pull one together. Afterwards, not only books were far more common, so were broadsides and pamphlets. The result was an explosion of printed material. However, the common person had been trained to think of printed material as being authoritative simply because of how previously difficult it was to produce. Thus, the printed material was taken too seriously.
The result was a lot of war.

The 21st century earth is not the 15th century earth. The average human alive with access to the internet today is more sophisticated than people in Gutenberg's time by orders of magnitude.

You want curation of Youtube. That is like asking for curation of Facebook content. Youtube is so broad in scope that curation within the network is impossible. You have to rely on external authorities.
Gornix is protected by the GPL. *

* Gorn Public License. Duplication by inferior sentient species prohibited.

benali72

  • CCF Winner's Circle - Supporter
  • Wise Sage
  • *
  • Posts: 2718
Re: Problem with YouTube
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2016, 06:21:07 pm »
I think Youtube has a bigger problem than the OP mentioned. Namely, theft.

Youtube posts all sorts of songs and video that are copyright-protected. In the past such use as we see on Youtube would be declared illegal. Now all of a sudden, since Google owns Youtube, that's ok?

I don't get it. Saying a wronged party can "request" deletion of a post is not sufficient, IMHO. I think if some individual engaged in Youtube's behavior as a facilitator of IP misuse, they would lose a lawsuit bigtime.

If you'll recall, Napster collapsed due to its legal problems over copyright infringement. How is Youtube different from Napster?

The Gorn

  • I absolutely DESPISE improvised sulfur-charcoal-salt peter cannons made out of hollow tree branches filled with diamonds as projectiles.
  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 22524
  • Gorn Classic, user of Gornix
Re: Problem with YouTube
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2016, 06:25:54 pm »
If you'll recall, Napster collapsed due to its legal problems over copyright infringement. How is Youtube different from Napster?

1) Google $$$ >>>>>> Napster $ (by a LOOOOT) Money talks.

2) Youtube content generally can't be captured and saved to the local drive. I thought that was the big objection the media companies had to Napster - you literally "steal" and then own a copy of the content.

3) Youtube displays lots and lots of ads, particularly if you watch popular videos.

It's entirely possible that Youtube functions like ASCAP did in the olde days  by monetizing jukebox performances of music. IE, Youtube may well pay content authors even for "unauthorized" content. That could be an explanation why content stays up almost forever.
Gornix is protected by the GPL. *

* Gorn Public License. Duplication by inferior sentient species prohibited.

pxsant

  • CCF Winner's Circle - Supporter
  • Wise Sage
  • *
  • Posts: 1682
Re: Problem with YouTube
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2016, 01:18:17 pm »
2) Youtube content generally can't be captured and saved to the local drive. I thought that was the big objection the media companies had to Napster - you literally "steal" and then own a copy of the content.

There actually are quite a few programs out there to capture and save YouTube videos.   I use one but I don't recall the name - it is in a virtual machine on my main Linux box.

here is a link to an article on YouTube capture.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/how-to-download-youtube-videos/

The Gorn

  • I absolutely DESPISE improvised sulfur-charcoal-salt peter cannons made out of hollow tree branches filled with diamonds as projectiles.
  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 22524
  • Gorn Classic, user of Gornix
Re: Problem with YouTube
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2016, 01:21:29 pm »
Sometimes you can and sometimes it's not possible and the plugin shows nothing available for download. There are a lot of video streams around that are encrypted or packaged in weird ways that the video downloaders don't recognize.
Gornix is protected by the GPL. *

* Gorn Public License. Duplication by inferior sentient species prohibited.