Mature-IT.pro - Discussion for Experienced IT Professionals

Main Category => Discussions - Public => Topic started by: ilconsiglliere on May 06, 2018, 08:01:20 am

Title: Decline of Geek Online Discussion
Post by: ilconsiglliere on May 06, 2018, 08:01:20 am
Its ridiculous to not talk to others if you don't agree with them politically.  There are so many other things to talk about.

So, let's talk about them. Small business, contracting, self improvement, anything except the dismal commentary on Trump, Syria, the deep state, Facebook's meddling, etc.

I'm hypothesizing that this individual (whose opinions I highly respected) had that issue with the board and won't say because he doesn't want to engage.

I could be ENTIRELY wrong, too.

The point of my post was I'm not going to give attention to someone else's efforts as a marketer and support them if they don't show an iota of friendship.

I've supported way too many individuals in my career without anyone ever supporting me.

The cheapest assed excuse I hear repeatedly is the ass covering lie "I was just thinking about calling you!" No, you didn't and were not thinking of calling me. You weren't going to call me in a million years.

The world would be a better place if people were not so butt covering and would admit that they are disengaged and lazy.

The problem is people don't really want to talk about anything. For someone to put you on a mailing list and than not give you 2 minutes to take you off says to me MEGA DOUCHE.

I think this board is slowly dying. Not sure what the problem is any more.
Title: Re: Decline of Geek Online Discussion
Post by: The Gorn on May 06, 2018, 05:05:17 pm
The problem is people don't really want to talk about anything. For someone to put you on a mailing list and than not give you 2 minutes to take you off says to me MEGA DOUCHE.

I think this board is slowly dying. Not sure what the problem is any more.

I'm thinking at this point that rebooting this board or even trying to pivot as a career changer resource is a waste of time.

The problem I see in our age group (mid 40s and up) in technology people is extreme disengagement. Mental laziness, resignation, not having any focus, being content to molder, not planning anything. I see quite a bit of that with some in this crew here, frankly.

Endless debate and mental masturbation with no action - hallmarks of the lifer techie.

The lack of interest in topics on this board is due to the average technology person looking for a big fat $75/hr and up teat to suckle. No teat, no interest. We don't have high $ contracting to discuss any more. So nobody is interested.

I have one niece approaching 30 with no degree or much business experience, has had many "life problems" involving mumble mumble - you sure as hell would not respect her resume or her, uh, record.

And she is kicking ass as a commissioned furniture sales person and has a side business making floral arrangements for local weddings. She studies the videos of Gary Vaynerchuck for inspiration.

But our age group makes itself useless to ourselves and society through our nihilistic disengagement and expecting to find a perfect career or work-life balance.

I've had work friends my age who loosely fit the profile of members here, and slowly I stop calling them or attempting to socialize. One guy dropped out of programming 16 years ago when he was being harassed OTJ and slowly has lost his marbles... he's no fun to talk to because he's so disengaged, nothing is ever worth any effort to figure out or try for. Another guy, about my age, a tech writer, talked about freelancing, but he acts like setting up a fucking Paypal account is brain surgery he fully intends to get around to one day in a shining future.

It's genuinely depressing trying to inspire interest in people who have embraced giving up as a lifestyle.

If I were to replace this board with a page with a one line message it would say this:

You're a former techie and you're over 50 and jobless? Get off your ass and TRY SOMETHING already. Jesus!
Title: Re: Decline of Geek Online Discussion
Post by: The Gorn on May 06, 2018, 05:30:05 pm
My original post was about the profound lack of sociability of some geeks. A guy subscribes me to his lame dry mailing list but wants nothing to do with me personally.

It's rejection.

We ex-programmers and IT types are a weird type. We're like what Unix complains about with the lack of support in men's supposed support forums. Unless you do the EXACT thing I do, I am not in your tribe and I have no interest in what you're doing. None none none.

It's all about my interests, and your interests are stupid and irrelevant.

No, I cannot possibly understand how you make a living or what your considerations are. You write software for a living? Kill yourself. How stupid.

You should be listening to my story instead.

I don't think I can grow a community where everyone thinks like that.
Title: Re: Decline of Geek Online Discussion
Post by: ilconsiglliere on May 08, 2018, 07:13:34 am
The problem is people don't really want to talk about anything. For someone to put you on a mailing list and than not give you 2 minutes to take you off says to me MEGA DOUCHE.

I think this board is slowly dying. Not sure what the problem is any more.

I'm thinking at this point that rebooting this board or even trying to pivot as a career changer resource is a waste of time.

The problem I see in our age group (mid 40s and up) in technology people is extreme disengagement. Mental laziness, resignation, not having any focus, being content to molder, not planning anything. I see quite a bit of that with some in this crew here, frankly.

Endless debate and mental masturbation with no action - hallmarks of the lifer techie.

The lack of interest in topics on this board is due to the average technology person looking for a big fat $75/hr and up teat to suckle. No teat, no interest. We don't have high $ contracting to discuss any more. So nobody is interested.

I have one niece approaching 30 with no degree or much business experience, has had many "life problems" involving mumble mumble - you sure as hell would not respect her resume or her, uh, record.

And she is kicking ass as a commissioned furniture sales person and has a side business making floral arrangements for local weddings. She studies the videos of Gary Vaynerchuck for inspiration.

But our age group makes itself useless to ourselves and society through our nihilistic disengagement and expecting to find a perfect career or work-life balance.

I've had work friends my age who loosely fit the profile of members here, and slowly I stop calling them or attempting to socialize. One guy dropped out of programming 16 years ago when he was being harassed OTJ and slowly has lost his marbles... he's no fun to talk to because he's so disengaged, nothing is ever worth any effort to figure out or try for. Another guy, about my age, a tech writer, talked about freelancing, but he acts like setting up a fucking Paypal account is brain surgery he fully intends to get around to one day in a shining future.

It's genuinely depressing trying to inspire interest in people who have embraced giving up as a lifestyle.

If I were to replace this board with a page with a one line message it would say this:

You're a former techie and you're over 50 and jobless? Get off your ass and TRY SOMETHING already. Jesus!

I agree with everything you wrote especially about the disengaged people. I have seen this over and over - people just refuse to adapt and the endless mental masturbation over NOTHING. 

Frankly I have cut most of my former IT people out of my life. Why? Because they bring me down. They are negative and spend enormous amount of time ruminating about the past. THEY WILL SUCK THE LIFE OUT OF YOU. Instead of looking forward and picking themselves up by their bootstraps they are stuck in one place. Things have changed and they wont or cant adapt. Not much else to say.

What many people fail to realize is that there are more than one way to make a living in this world. It doesnt have to be IT or even computer related. I have seen enough people do something totally non-IT related and do great financially that you realize that your life doesnt have to revolve around working for some company sitting behind a computer.

I have never been a true IT nerd. I was never very good at math and was never into some of the hobbies and interests that typical IT people were into. Examples include dungeons and dragons, Star Trek, Star Wars, math, science and all the other things that IT people tend to be into. Many are also addicted to porn.

On top of this they also tend to have odd social skills and many are anti-social.  They would like to interact with NO ONE if they could.

Thats why years ago I realized the chances of IT people organizing against the H1B onslaught was next to impossible. They are quite happy to sit around and debate the H1B forever instead of doing something about it.

IT people should have formed a union/guild or and PAC of their own. But that will NEVER happen the way they are. That ship has sailed, its too late now. On top of this many of them are either libertarian or hyper liberal.

As you said unless you are into what they are into they just dont care about you.

I have an example of this among car guys - I am into VWs for a very long time. Since I was about 20. Never had an air cooled one, mine have all been water cooled. I belong to a few VW car clubs. One of them, their only focus is on the air cooled VWs, NOTHING else. Never mind that VW has not brought an air cooled car into the US since the 70s. They dont care and if you dont have an air cooled VW they ostracize you and dont want to even be friends with you. Thats exactly how IT people are.
Title: Re: Decline of Geek Online Discussion
Post by: The Gorn on May 08, 2018, 08:48:47 am
I have never been a true IT nerd. I was never very good at math and was never into some of the hobbies and interests that typical IT people were into. Examples include dungeons and dragons, Star Trek, Star Wars, math, science and all the other things that IT people tend to be into. Many are also addicted to porn.

On top of this they also tend to have odd social skills and many are anti-social.  They would like to interact with NO ONE if they could.

I totally claim those characteristics in myself. I am a nerd, I am an original Star Trek fan, although never into D&D which was just starting when I was in high school, and I've had quite odd social skills during my heavy geek phase.

But one has to grow up sometime. And it's completely lazy to refuse to observe how others are living their lives.

And, self awareness is on the way to greater self knowledge. Most people are not self aware.  No growth and no movement is literally the definition of death.
Title: Re: Decline of Geek Online Discussion
Post by: ilconsiglliere on May 08, 2018, 09:43:41 am
I have never been a true IT nerd. I was never very good at math and was never into some of the hobbies and interests that typical IT people were into. Examples include dungeons and dragons, Star Trek, Star Wars, math, science and all the other things that IT people tend to be into. Many are also addicted to porn.

On top of this they also tend to have odd social skills and many are anti-social.  They would like to interact with NO ONE if they could.

I totally claim those characteristics in myself. I am a nerd, I am an original Star Trek fan, although never into D&D which was just starting when I was in high school, and I've had quite odd social skills during my heavy geek phase.

But one has to grow up sometime. And it's completely lazy to refuse to observe how others are living their lives.

And, self awareness is on the way to greater self knowledge. Most people are not self aware.  No growth and no movement is literally the definition of death.

I dont think you are a true nerd. You and I can have a conversation about many things besides IT stuff. Your social skills are fine.

I agree that self awareness is the key to growing. Many people dont want to grow, status quo is good enough and they dont care.
Title: Re: Decline of Geek Online Discussion
Post by: The Gorn on May 08, 2018, 01:05:40 pm
As far as me not being a nerd - you didn't know me 20+ years ago. Before about 2003 I was as aspie retard as they come. A large part of me still screams that people are always the problem and that things won't come at you by themselves and hurt you for spite but people will do so.

The other big current thread on this site at the thread about men's support forums where we segued into being connected through niche identities (http://forums.techcareerfubar.com/discussions/men%27s-support-forums/msg97121/#msg97121) is relevant to this thread. Hobbies, pastimes, subject interests, and geek fixations can all be used to create tribal identities. Along with race, national origin, language, and other aspects.

Past military service. Generically it's a pretty good peer group when it's service members from a specific country. Even more social cohesion among members of particular branches of service. And the ultimate social affiliation happens between guys (or women) who were in the same units, squadrons, camps, outposts, etc.

For instance, a video on a Youtube channel I subscribed to about affordable performance cars - the guy has one video where he discusses "normies" or non-car people, people who don't care about performance. He uses the word "normies" and humorously uses a Pepe meme of holding a shotgun at his own head. (He was doing this to segue into discussing budget cars at a certain price point.) In other words, "normies who aren't into cars, kill yourselves." (I laughed my ass off with his performance.)

The point here being that car enthusiasts consider their interest level a sign of distinction and brotherhood.


Many church cultures are quite similar.

Programming can be both like a religion calling as well as a shared interest tribe. Outsiders are considered stupid, unknowledgeable, uncultured, not as worthy, and less-than. The tribalism in programming can extend to programming niches... lightweight vs heavyweight "bare metal" developers.

Or, ideological groupings. I think the Trump presidency and the alt-right galvanized a lot of middle-income and middle class whites into a feeling of belonging and cared for that they get nowhere else. (DON'T turn this into a political thread. Just using as an example.)

Lastly, perception of shared hardship adds a lot of social cohesion. Military is (in my opinion) the absolute tops for this. Blacks and some other minorities may experience fellowship through feeling of shared hardship. Programmers are the grown up equivalent of the nerd's table in the high school cafeteria.

The shared hardship may be a huge barrier to acceptance of an outsider.

Maybe people naturally seek identity thereby inducting themselves into a distinct peer group, for mutual admiration, protection and fellowship.
Title: Re: Decline of Geek Online Discussion
Post by: ilconsiglliere on May 08, 2018, 05:50:21 pm
As far as me not being a nerd - you didn't know me 20+ years ago. Before about 2003 I was as aspie retard as they come. A large part of me still screams that people are always the problem and that things won't come at you by themselves and hurt you for spite but people will do so.

The other big current thread on this site at the thread about men's support forums where we segued into being connected through niche identities (http://forums.techcareerfubar.com/discussions/men%27s-support-forums/msg97121/#msg97121) is relevant to this thread. Hobbies, pastimes, subject interests, and geek fixations can all be used to create tribal identities. Along with race, national origin, language, and other aspects.

Past military service. Generically it's a pretty good peer group when it's service members from a specific country. Even more social cohesion among members of particular branches of service. And the ultimate social affiliation happens between guys (or women) who were in the same units, squadrons, camps, outposts, etc.

For instance, a video on a Youtube channel I subscribed to about affordable performance cars - the guy has one video where he discusses "normies" or non-car people, people who don't care about performance. He uses the word "normies" and humorously uses a Pepe meme of holding a shotgun at his own head. (He was doing this to segue into discussing budget cars at a certain price point.) In other words, "normies who aren't into cars, kill yourselves." (I laughed my ass off with his performance.)

The point here being that car enthusiasts consider their interest level a sign of distinction and brotherhood.


Many church cultures are quite similar.

Programming can be both like a religion calling as well as a shared interest tribe. Outsiders are considered stupid, unknowledgeable, uncultured, not as worthy, and less-than. The tribalism in programming can extend to programming niches... lightweight vs heavyweight "bare metal" developers.

Or, ideological groupings. I think the Trump presidency and the alt-right galvanized a lot of middle-income and middle class whites into a feeling of belonging and cared for that they get nowhere else. (DON'T turn this into a political thread. Just using as an example.)

Lastly, perception of shared hardship adds a lot of social cohesion. Military is (in my opinion) the absolute tops for this. Blacks and some other minorities may experience fellowship through feeling of shared hardship. Programmers are the grown up equivalent of the nerd's table in the high school cafeteria.

The shared hardship may be a huge barrier to acceptance of an outsider.

Maybe people naturally seek identity thereby inducting themselves into a distinct peer group, for mutual admiration, protection and fellowship.

If you say you were a nerd, than ok. You are good guy in my book  >:D

I understand what you are saying about the tribal stuff. Make sense and I can see this happening. What I have to come to realize is the elite want the public carved into niches. Small niches are far easier to control than large mass movement.

Would love to know the name of that channel on Youtube that you mentioned about the affordable performance cars.
Title: Re: Decline of Geek Online Discussion
Post by: The Gorn on May 08, 2018, 06:03:30 pm
The Youtube channel is "Bladed Angel". Mostly about cars. His stuff is hilarious and informative. I can't find the video with the kill yourself shotgun meme. I went BWAH HAH HAH! when that came on.

Tribes have always been around - I think most of us just don't realize how tribal humans are and how universal tribes are, and it's generally not a bad thing. Think of lodges, fraternities, alumni, hometown sports teams. I suspect that the premise of the book "Bowling Alone" (which I never read) may stem from the lack of ways in which average people can connect through incidental social groupings.

What the elites and globalists have done is weaponize tribalism as a way to mutually antagonize groups that otherwise wouldn't really care about each other.

Sic:  I never gave two shits about gay people nor judged their lifestyle. I've known some great gays who were friends. And, gays of each sex have historically been very tribal. But what the cultural right-left war has done is weaponize the differences such that many gays are now convinced that someone who is alt-right wants to shove them into a gas chamber, when actually we don't care about them anyway.

IE, one niece is gay and she is convinced that as a Trump supporter I will automatically disapprove and reject her, so SHE is doing the rejecting of the entire family. What was a concern is weaponized into fully realized alienation and I didn't do a Goddamned thing to make it happen.
Title: Re: Decline of Geek Online Discussion
Post by: ilconsiglliere on May 09, 2018, 03:27:40 am
The Youtube channel is "Bladed Angel". Mostly about cars. His stuff is hilarious and informative. I can't find the video with the kill yourself shotgun meme. I went BWAH HAH HAH! when that came on.

Tribes have always been around - I think most of us just don't realize how tribal humans are and how universal tribes are, and it's generally not a bad thing. Think of lodges, fraternities, alumni, hometown sports teams. I suspect that the premise of the book "Bowling Alone" (which I never read) may stem from the lack of ways in which average people can connect through incidental social groupings.

What the elites and globalists have done is weaponize tribalism as a way to mutually antagonize groups that otherwise wouldn't really care about each other.

Sic:  I never gave two shits about gay people nor judged their lifestyle. I've known some great gays who were friends. And, gays of each sex have historically been very tribal. But what the cultural right-left war has done is weaponize the differences such that many gays are now convinced that someone who is alt-right wants to shove them into a gas chamber, when actually we don't care about them anyway.

IE, one niece is gay and she is convinced that as a Trump supporter I will automatically disapprove and reject her, so SHE is doing the rejecting of the entire family. What was a concern is weaponized into fully realized alienation and I didn't do a Goddamned thing to make it happen.

The only tribe that is not allowed to be a tribe is whites. Everyone and everything else can be a tribe but whites. If whites organize now its a problem and of course its racist.
Title: Re: Decline of Geek Online Discussion
Post by: JoFrance on May 15, 2018, 03:55:46 pm
I was never an IT nerd.  I met a lot of them over the years, but IT to me just had a place in my life, it didn't define me personally.  I loved IT work.

I don't care what gay people do.  My nephew is gay and his husband is black.  I love them both.  I've never considered myself tribal, but I do resent the attacks on white people just for being white.  I think most of us don't care who or what someone is if they're a nice person.  That's what does it for me, anyway.

I like to keep a toe in the water of tech discussions, but the truth is I'm retiring this year and so is my husband.  I'm so glad for him.  He's sick of the grind.  Its going to be interesting to have him home every day.  Uh oh.