NOTE TO computerconsultantsforum.com and forums.techcareerfubar.com USERS: This is the same site. Your login will work here. Use the "forgot password" function if you need help recovering your password.

Get rid of this big black message box by joining here: http://mature-it.pro/register/

Obvious fact: You're not logged in.

Therefore, you're only seeing the tip of the iceberg of great discussion threads on this site. The frankest, most raw and truthful observations about employment and work life in the IT and engineering fields are in "members only" sections that are ONLY visible when you are registered and you log in.

If you're 35 or over, and work in IT, or are retired from IT, and you dislike the herd mentality and clueless, adolescent snobbery of forums such as "Hacker News", then you really should join this board. Why? Because you're too smart for Facebook. And everyone needs someone to gossip, commisserate, and chat with at their level.

Who we are:

A collection of IT, engineering and sciences professionals, in a variety of current circumstances with a variety of career backgrounds. Including:

  • System admins
  • Developers and programmers
  • Freelancers and "gig" entrepreneurs
  • Contract, job shopping and FTE-employed contract house IT workers
  • Web developers
  • Inventors
  • Artists and writers with tech backgrounds

This forum has its roots in the 1990s buildup of the IT field into what we know today and has been around since 2002. 10s of thousands of messages and threads about a variety of career, FTE, contract, and side gig issues and opportunities.

If you're as smart as the typical experienced IT professional, you have a critical mind that has a hard time staying engaged with pop culture and generic issues of the day. And you're WELL beyond the fanboy mentality of the young developer communities. Get some relief here.

Register on the board - your email is NEVER sold or provided to third parties. Then LOGIN FREQUENTLY to see new stuff daily. Note to long lost members: all politics have been marked as "opt in" only. You won't see anything political unless you ask for it.

Join by Registering here: http://mature-it.pro/register/

Author Topic: An Observation about Programming  (Read 305 times)

The Gorn

  • I absolutely DESPISE improvised sulfur-charcoal-salt peter cannons made out of hollow tree branches filled with diamonds as projectiles.
  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 22560
  • Gorn Classic, user of Gornix
An Observation about Programming
« on: July 03, 2018, 06:44:58 pm »
To those of you who have opted to drop out of the IT career field who used to develop software...

If you once had excellent software development skills, you'll probably never get your coding chops back, without struggle and hair pulling and massive aggravation.

Never. Not unless something external is motivating you to re-learn.

Don't kid yourself. Aspects of it are like riding a bike but high level SW development is more like pro athletics. And NOBODY appreciates it.

Ten years ago I was excellent, and also fast, at C++ on both Windows and Linux. I worked very, very damned hard at it and I was good. Not a poseur, a real developer.

I dropped that skill set out of superlative justified bitterness at the way my previous shithead clients had treated me.

You guys who think you can get back in, you're wrong. It will require struggle even to come 1/10 of the way to where you were in your prime.

Programming wise I feel like a former athlete in a wheelchair who is being asked to power walk.

Today I'm trying to add some functions to a Wordpress website. I need to use PHP to make the changes happen.

AGONY.

A million fucking stupid little rules and syntax issues. PHP is crap anyway.

Everything mocks me personally with failure, bugs, no way to debug, no idea how to set up an ecosystem to debug this shit anyway.

I always, without fail, get everything wrong in syntax and logic. No matter how extremely very hard I try.

After what felt like a major battle, I got a shitty tiny little function working.

I despise the immaturity of computer language designers who make inconsistent shit. In PHP there is a distinction that only the millennial dickheads understand between functions that emit output directly (like a "print" statement) and those other functions that return a string value that you can compose and print LATER. They don't TELL you which is which.

Ass holes!

And that's the baseline against which your merit as a developer is measured.

I'm glad I left that area, although I had nothing solid to replace it with. I really dislike what it does to me and my mental composure to be constantly mocked by the tools.

Mocked, taunted. It's personal!
Gornix is protected by the GPL. *

* Gorn Public License. Duplication by inferior sentient species prohibited.

unix

  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 4170
Re: An Observation about Programming
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2018, 03:55:03 am »


Aren't you a rain of sunshine today

LOL

*sigh*

I haven't lost anything because I was never a great developer to begin with. I could hack code when I had to, usually Korn Shell / Perl scripts, occasionally mixed in with C - and 99% of the time in the sysadmin role it's maintaining code and making sure all the libraries are there and stuff, when porting.


I wrote a ton of Perl scripts 10 years ago, almost full time.
Brawndo. It's got what plants crave.

The Gorn

  • I absolutely DESPISE improvised sulfur-charcoal-salt peter cannons made out of hollow tree branches filled with diamonds as projectiles.
  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 22560
  • Gorn Classic, user of Gornix
Re: An Observation about Programming
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2018, 07:43:44 am »
Software development is different than any other craft. I can do almost anything else that requires skill and concentration - home fix-it projects, such as plumbing, drywall repair, wiring a new circuit... or I can cook, I have really gotten into cooking in the last 5 years... and I have a Zen flow experience more or less and I feel like I am controlling the tools and the outcomes.

Software is quite different than any physical craft. Unlike any other craft, tiny subtleties just kill your progress. And software's response to human effort is asymmetric. The more effort you put into software often the worse the results.
Gornix is protected by the GPL. *

* Gorn Public License. Duplication by inferior sentient species prohibited.

unix

  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 4170
Re: An Observation about Programming
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2018, 08:20:25 am »
Interesting.

Brawndo. It's got what plants crave.

JoFrance

  • CCF Winner's Circle - Supporter
  • Wise Sage
  • *
  • Posts: 2465
Re: An Observation about Programming
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2018, 02:20:12 pm »
That sounds really aggravating, Gorn.  I think you do a great job with websites.  I couldn't work with websites like you do.  I'd be ready for a strait jacket and padded room.  I can't help myself so I had to do this  :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Fn36l_z3WY

Sometimes it all becomes too much and that's when you just have to park it for awhile and do something else, like cooking.  Do something that makes you feel good for a day.  It doesn't have to be anything big, just something that brings you joy.

ilconsiglliere

  • CCF Winner's Circle - Supporter
  • Wise Sage
  • *
  • Posts: 3237
Re: An Observation about Programming
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2018, 02:24:12 am »
Yeah I think Gorn sums it up. I have even noticed this with Windows administration. For the last year or two I have been doing it less and less as I have been converting people to OS X and Linux. And guess what? You forget. And guess what else? YOU DONT CARE EITHER :)

I D Shukhov

  • Resigned Forum
  • Wise Sage
  • *****
  • Posts: 11621
Re: An Observation about Programming
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2018, 05:16:42 pm »
Software is quite different than any physical craft. Unlike any other craft, tiny subtleties just kill your progress. And software's response to human effort is asymmetric. The more effort you put into software often the worse the results.
Interesting observation.  It must have to do with intelligence.  Smart people understand the simplest way to solve a problem.   Less intelligent people don't grok the essence of the solution and add in a bunch of unnecessary scaffolding, adornments and what-not.

And then there are tools.  To be a good software engineer you need to know what tools are available and furthermore be competent with them through having used them.  Probably many of us were amazed at how much code could be removed with an RDBMS the first time we used one to rewrite some code.

Be Prepared.

ilconsiglliere

  • CCF Winner's Circle - Supporter
  • Wise Sage
  • *
  • Posts: 3237
Re: An Observation about Programming
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2018, 06:23:55 am »
Software is quite different than any physical craft. Unlike any other craft, tiny subtleties just kill your progress. And software's response to human effort is asymmetric. The more effort you put into software often the worse the results.
Interesting observation.  It must have to do with intelligence.  Smart people understand the simplest way to solve a problem.   Less intelligent people don't grok the essence of the solution and add in a bunch of unnecessary scaffolding, adornments and what-not.

And then there are tools.  To be a good software engineer you need to know what tools are available and furthermore be competent with them through having used them.  Probably many of us were amazed at how much code could be removed with an RDBMS the first time we used one to rewrite some code.

I agree with this. I have met smart programmers and stupid one. What I have observed is that these tools today allow people to be lazy as opposed to the old days. For example years ago if you were coding on Unix there was vi or emacs - thats it. There was nothing else. Everything was coded in one of them. There was no IDE's showing all the dependencies in the code.

Some of the IDE's are hairy today with Eclipse being the most obvious example. To get Eclipse working smoothly can be a bear and a half. I know plenty of developers that have spent an enormous amount of time just getting it to run the way its supposed to.

With programming you either use it or lose it. I dont code any longer but can muscle my way through a script if I have too but it becomes readily obvious that it can be difficult.