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Author Topic: Good interview yesterday - would you take it?  (Read 1037 times)

manwslohand

  • Guest
Good interview yesterday - would you take it?
« on: September 08, 2005, 05:40:42 am »
Had a great FTE interview yesterday. A telecom company that provides a call management system in vb.net (desktop app). The position is custom programming add-ons to the core system. Basically, the sales guys sell the add-on, give you a 2 paragraph description of what they customer wants, you give them a price, then its fixed-price to the customer. They apparently don't care if they make money on the custom programming. Margins must be high for the core project.

It might have some mgt responsibilities but not guaranteed. I all but got an offer at the first interview but agreed to come back for a 2nd. He was already trying to talk me into not giving a full 2 weeks' notice.

Base pay would bump about $12k-$15k but they only do a 25% match on 401k. My current employer pays 100% ($500/mth). There might be some stock options and I suspect the insurance isn't as good as what I have currently.

Would like to hear your thoughts before I share mine. Just want to see if you'd take it or not.


The Original Dinosaur

  • Guest
Re: Good interview yesterday - would you take it?
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2005, 06:07:23 am »
Of course, you have a lot of security where you are.  The telecom could change overnight, and you'd be on the street.  OTOH, you seem to be able to come up with offers on a regular basis.

Then there's this soft value.  The guy wants you to give short notice, perhaps burning a bridge, and doing something slighty shifty.  Do you feel comfortable working with a guy like that?  And, if he's so short-term in hiring, will he be equally short-notice in firing or changing the deal?

As to the money, I know you've griped about it, but the whole package may be about the same.  You would have extra cash for toys, etc., but may not have the future retirement, health insurance, time off and such.

manwslohand

  • Guest
Re: Good interview yesterday - would you take it?
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2005, 06:38:34 am »
You raise some good points. I told the guy "no" flatly on the short notice. I refuse to drop my integrity over this. BTW, the boss is a new hire as well. He's only been there 7 weeks. He's looking to come in and re-vamp the custom programming group and install some accountability (i.e. project mgt). I'm just wondering how much profit they're making on the base package to afford to not even track the custom-programming side. I can't imagine just giving fixed-price bids without some spec. documents in place. Can you say "scope creep"?

pm4hire

  • Guest
My $.02 -> Stay away from telecommunicatiions
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2005, 07:00:37 am »
Decline the offer, you want to be in a
growth industry, not one with huge
over capacity.

Telco is a loser!

Unknown

  • Guest
Dont jump at the first thing that catches your eye
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2005, 08:06:36 am »
I did that and wound up in white slavery land.  Looked good with the onshore outsourcing angle.

I had to quit after 5 weeks.

Now my buddy that was out of work, out of IT and living in Kansas for 6 mos, the one I just got hired here the last 3 weeks just got extended.

THAT is creating a conflict with his other 3 offers to do EMC sans across the continent. The best one is 200k in canada, something like 75 an hour and 2k expenses per month. Have seen the emails myself.

Its surging right now.  Field another good offer and then make a choice.


manwslohand

  • Guest
Re: Dont jump at the first thing that catches your eye
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2005, 10:47:33 am »
Thanks for the input guys. I'd already decided (mostly) that this wasn't the right opportunity. I think I am going to go for the 2nd "interview" though. The mgr wants me to spend some time with the out-going programmer and to talk with HR. I'm thinking to hear them out then shoot a high dollar figure at them. The started out with the bork at "$60k-$65k". I said "$70k-$75k minimum to get me to move". I'm thinking to wait for the offer then shoot $85k-$90k. They should choke on it but if they don't maybe I can deal with it for the extra bread.

Any thoughts?

The Original Dinosaur

  • Guest
Re: Dont jump at the first thing that catches your eye
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2005, 12:21:29 pm »
Quote
Quote:
The mgr wants me to spend some time with the out-going programmer
And why is s/he leaving?

manwslohand

  • Guest
Re: Dont jump at the first thing that catches your eye
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2005, 12:51:25 pm »
Exactly. The mgr left 6 mos ago. The main programmer is splitting next week. I smell trouble brewing but for $90k I might risk it. I just can't see them paying that for a vb.net guy doing desktop custom apps.

John Masterson

  • Guest
Re: Dont jump at the first thing that catches your eye
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2005, 01:32:29 pm »
If it seems too good to be true...then it is not true.

You could find yourself with a $90k job for 2 weeks, and then no job. :(

--- JM

manwslohand

  • Guest
Re: Dont jump at the first thing that catches your eye
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2005, 07:04:05 am »
Funny how things can change on a dime. I have a project that may fail at the current job. I believe I've done my job and it's ready to go but the top mgrs haven't gotten confidence yet and they're thinking of going with an outside vendor instead of doing it in-house (politics involved). Long story I won't go into right now.

After reading the feedback here I was about to send the "not interested" email to this job lead this morning. Just got word of the project problem so now I'm requesting the 2nd interview. Obviously, the arrogant $90k figure just went out the window.

I hate this feeling. Thanks guys, for all your input. Maybe it's time to go back to consulting anyways.

Dennis Nedry

  • Guest
MSW, an observation
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2005, 08:37:53 am »
MSW,

This is just an observation based on your posting here, but it seems you don't have a coherent idea of direction (tech career wise, that is)

On the one hand, you are comfy in your current gig, the pay is lower than you'd like, but it seems to balance between job security and just enough pay to keep the MSW family rolling along.

However, on the other hand, part of you wants to kick up to the next gear and start bringing in some real dough.  You face a couple of issues, job security, and your Tenn location, which ain't the highest paying.

Here's an another possible approach.  Instead of looking for another private sector gig, which will probably only pay you marginally better, but cause you much more headaches, why not keep your government gig and focus really heavily on creating another stream of income.  This way you can keep your job security, yet maintain an entrepreneurial spirit, and keep your mind busy during the long dull days at the government gig.  Also, if you have spare time at your gig, and you can be super stealthy and use your own equipment, maybe you can brainstorm during lulls.

I'm not saying this would be easy.  It won't.  There are no guarantees, and it will be tougher and take longer than you imagined.  But it provides another approach to ye ol money problem (that we all have to varying degrees).

Just a thought.

The Gorn

  • I absolutely DESPISE improvised sulfur-charcoal-salt peter cannons made out of hollow tree branches filled with diamonds as projectiles.
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  • Gorn Classic, user of Gornix
Completely agreed - excellent points
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2005, 08:55:29 am »
MWSH posted recently about his weenie manager dinging him about taking a day of vacation off for 'unspecified' purposes. In a civil service job you can slide by with disagreements existing between you and your boss. In a "work your ass off for the brass ring" type commercial job it's unlikely that anything will be negotiable.

Working at a "this job will MAKE you if we don't kill you and stuff your corpse in a dumpster first" type job usually means writing off all personal obligations for the GOOD of the COMPANY. Commercial industry, esp. in flyover type parts of the country, expects to be able to treat their employees like robots.
Gornix is protected by the GPL. *

* Gorn Public License. Duplication by inferior sentient species prohibited.

manwslohand

  • Guest
Re: MSW, an observation
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2005, 12:41:10 pm »
I have to agree with you on the lack of career direction. I'm torn, I admit it. The govt gig is available to stay but it's not as of a dead time job as you guys think. I hustle close to as much as a private sector job but I do have lots of time off, fully paid retirement and civil service job security. I could almost get away with busting my boss in the chops but we do get along just fine. I like the group of guys I work with very much.

I do have extra streams of income. Some sporadic consulting ($5k-$10k/yr) and a music gig that brings around $20k/yr. I'm taking the interview in earnest but I'm not jumping at just anything. I got some more info on the project I mentioned. The project will run but the deputy commissioner is scared to go for it. He's been used to an outside vendor for 15 years and he's scared of having more responsibility in-house. I got plenty of options open but I do appreciate your candor and your input.

manwslohand

  • Guest
Re: Dont jump at the first thing that catches your eye
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2005, 05:34:15 am »
Went on the 2nd interview yesterday, went great. Looks like I'll get a $75k offer on Friday or Mon. Funny thing though, the bork said they wanted to know if I'd accept before they tender an offer. I'm still inclined to pass on it but have you guys ever run into that before?

BTW, I'm realizing much more the value of interviewing/looking while you're employed. It radically changes your posture, your answers and other people's perceptions of you, I'm convinced of that.

codger

  • Guest
Re: Dont jump at the first thing that catches your eye
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2005, 06:14:00 am »
Quote
Looks like I'll get a $75k offer on Friday or Mon. Funny thing though, the bork said they wanted to know if I'd accept before they tender an offer. I'm still inclined to pass on it but have you guys ever run into that before?

It sounds like you're at the absolute top of their range, and they're trying to make certain that you won't counter the offer of $75K.

However, never discount the bork's role in negotiations. He/she's telling you that they want to know whether you're to accept. I doubt if the customer has asked that question. The bork has likely told them that you'll take $75K, and doesn't want you pulling any last minute shenanigans.

How unusual! A bork who speaks out of both sides of his mouth.

Congratulations on surviving the interview gauntlet. Turn it down. You've already got a good gig. There's more to life than extracting the last dollar from an employer or client. Work to live - not live to work.

Something smells wrong here. Walk away.